[USER]

[seeking help] I have always been a saver, and after finding FI, I have found myself slowly becoming a miser, I get mad/upset/depressed everytime when I spend money.

to be more specific, I feel these feelings when I think the money is not worth spending or “unesssary”, and those include social outings, nanny for date nights, wedding anniversary celebrations, holiday gifts/ celebrations, etc.

so ive basically become the party pooper/ anti-social/ lame person in the friend group.

and I always find a way to justify that im being “smart” or “responsible” with money and that’s also my consequence for finding FI too late, and being a late starter…

im not happy with the type of person I am becoming, and even when times I try to allow myself to indulge a bit, I always end up feeling angry and depressed…

for example, it was my husband and i’s 9th wedding anniversary, so I decided to surprise him to a nice steak restaurant, the dinner ended up being $200, and my mind just went blank when I saw the bill, even though I knew it was coming, cause its simple math to add up the prices while ordering…

long story short, I ruined the night, upset my husband, and kinda traumatized him that hes unwilling to go out with me now, cause I just make him feel poor.

I want to find a balance that im saving for the future, and hopefully FIRE, but then also able to enjoy life. how do I find the balance?

because I always look for ways to optimize things, and life just doesn’t that way.

when I can’t or don’t optimize things, I get so upset and dwell on the opportunity cost. can someone talk sense to me so im not living such a miserable life and make my whole family feel miserable and poor.

I tried talking to my therapist about this, but she doesn’ really understand… I thought the peole in the FI community might understand and could help me out before I destroy my marriage.

thank you!

[Rebecca]

I think spending money is like a muscle. Especially when you are a saver. I just got a massage yesterday and it had been 2 years.

I tell myself I work hard, it’s ok to splurge etc.

is there anything else you are angry and depressed about?

[Stephen]

Your remedy… “The only real asset you have is your time. The hours of your life. You’re born. You have about eighty-eight hundred hours in a year.

Maybe six hundred and fifty thousand hours before you die.

You’ll easily spend half of them sleeping and keeping your body fed, clothed, and reasonably comfortable.

Maybe you’re already halfway through your life, meaning you’re down to a hundred and fifty thousand hours left to spend. This is your treasure.”

[Vera]

How old are you? If you are starting in your 50s and are behind with your retirement savings, the sacrifice is reasonable.

If you are in your 30s, live a little more

[Justin]

Have a budgeting line item for this kind of thing. If it doesn’t get used one month, keep adding it to the next month. Tell yourself it MUST be spent on that category eventually.

Another idea, earn small amounts of money through taking surveys (look up Cloud Research) and other similar activities.

Then, use this money for social activities. Then, it’s not coming out of your normal earnings.

[Lacey]

While I don’t have this mindset to the degree that it’s causing me problems … I can totally understand where you’re coming from and the slippery slope of being an “optimizer.”

I too am an optimizer and hate opportunity cost. My whole budgeting system totally gamifies “how much can I pack into savings this month?!”

And because I wasn’t always this way — made some dumb and/or oblivious financial moves in my twenties, didn’t get my shit together til early 30s, and discovered FI at 33/34ish … I always feel like I need to hustle harder to make up for lost time.

But I think what saves me from being miserable about any and all spending is my adoption of core value called “priority based spending.”

This value, in my daily life practice, means that I cut ruthlessly ALL the spending on anything and everything that isn’t of super high importance to me … but for the few things that ARE really, *really* important to me, I clearly define those AND I also define why spending on those things are as important as saving.

Write this shit down, and all your reasons. And what would the opportunity cost of NOT spending on these top priorities be also (eg, strain on your marriage).

Once you mentally get behind your real values and make spending on them INTENTIONAL and part of the plan, you create a shift in mindset.

Here are my areas of priority where spending my money feels (1) in alignment with my highest values and (2) is as important as saving.
— making memories with my aging parents.

My mom will be 75 this year, and what I am spending to make that milestone birthday special to her is worth it.

I of course spend lots of time and do things with them that are free on the reg, but in addition I make it a point to make good experiences too and that costs money.

I know my days where they are mobile enough to do fun shit are limited — I’m not going to waste this time.

— Feeding my body good nutrition is uber important to me. My grocery bill offends my budget every month. BUT my body feels great, because I only eat real food that’s nutrient dense not full of poison.

So, I get the pasture raised eggs, the organic produce, the pasture raised antibiotic free more expensive meats.

— my friends and relationship are important. That doesn’t mean I have an unlimited spend here… but in my head I make it a point to have lunch, or a cocktail, or an evening, with each friend once a month or so.

I have a small amount of friends so this isn’t overwhelming. My friends know that I’m financially conscious.

— my motorcycles. Most people won’t get this one, but riding is my passion.

I am not frivolous with this, and I plan when I spend and when I don’t… but if my dirtbike needs a new tire it doesn’t break me mentally, and it doesn’t break my financial progress.

So, if it has nothing to do with one of those 4 things … it’s not a priority. And if it’s not a priority, it doesn’t matter… and it gets zero or VERY VERY LITTLE discretionary dollars.

Hope finding your most important non-financial values, and seeing how money is a tool to foster and support those values, helps.

[Monica]

I dislike “stuff” and have found there are many things I don’t value. A $200 meal would make me sick to my stomach because the worth is not there for me.

Spending $300 on jet ski rentals would be fun and I would enjoy every dime spent.

Same goes for vacations for me, I value – rental with kitchen so we eat meals and have down time/personal space at the rental and spend more $$$ on excursions/memories.

Maybe you are finding more of what you value and that won’t necessarily align with others.

My husband and I have the same thinking on this so it does not cause distress between us.

I do think if my husband got all excited for a steak and that made it a fun adventure, I could be persuaded

[Rick]

Emotional management is extremely personal. So, this may resonate with you or it may fall flat.

Common advice is to not look at your portfolio. Look maybe 2-3 times a year.

There is even an urban legend of a fidelity study that showed two groups that performed the best were dead people and those who forgot about their accounts.

For me though, the opposite has helped me spend. I check my investments often. And I have for many years.

The result is a pure numbing feeling to fluctuations. Up? Ok don’t care. Down? Ok don’t care.

It started as hundreds then thousands then tens of thousands and even a hundred thousand.

Gain or lose $10k or $50k in a day and I promise most people learn to stop fretting over a $200 dinner.

When you are up or down 50 to 250 steak dinners in a day…perspective smacks you in the face. Hard.

[Melissa]

You need to start exercising that part of your brain and spirit to allow yourself to spend money. Start small. Maybe $100 for the month.

You have to spend it on something you enjoy.

Maybe it’s 10, $10 items. Maybe it’s 1, $100 item. You get to control the amount of money but you have to spend it. Make a line item in your budget.

If you don’t spend it then you have to donate it. Once you give yourself permission to spend, and you start exercising that practice, you will see the fun and joy that money is suppose to give you.

[Sandra]

Consider paying yourself first. Establish a reasonable figure (say $50 a month) and spend it foolishly. You and your husband can decide together how to spend it.

Maybe a date night or silly gifts for each other. This strategy may give you a bit of balance yet still keeps you on the path to FIRE.

Involving your husband may help your relationship too.

[Kristin]

Just a couple thoughts- I was raised to be so frugal that I didn’t get a haircut for almost a decade in my 20s.

I never understood as a kid why we couldn’t buy the yellow bananas and instead had to buy the brown ones in the paper bag to make banana bread.

It wasn’t until I was 50 and divorced that I bought some pretty underwear (on the 75% off rack only!) But I started slowly, to have fun with money instead of fear around it.

It felt strange at first.
So now I do it creatively. New clothes? Sure, but I shop second hand stores. I buy my haircut card in Nov for the whole year of $11.99 haircuts (I do tip well!)

So, in your case, maybe you could have gone out for a delicious meal with pleasant ambiance for $60- 80. Or bought steaks at the grocery and grilled them at home with a nice bottle of wine.

I grow my own organic veggies so I don’t have to pay organic prices. A balance I guess. It’s fun for me to make special things relatively cheap.

Another thought is that you might find a job you love to do and continue to work part time just for fun. I had no savings until I was 40 and went to nursing school.

Then I went to massage school at 58 and absolutely love it and will prob continue to do it as a side gig as long as I’m able. It keeps me in shape and I feel better.

One more thought- I have a massage client who is a school teacher and does a side job housecleaning just so she can use that money for massages and other things.

Also, if your marriage is in trouble I would get some specific therapy around scarcity. There are online therapists, too.

Maybe learning tapping (EFT -emotional freedom technique) to get at the base of your fears and calm your nervous system would be helpful.

I’ve had great results with it and it’s super simple after you learn it.

[Cheryl]

You need a budget. People tend to hate budgeting because they feel limited but I disagree. For me it’s liberating. If I have $xx dollars budgeted for dinner out, I know I can do it without guilt.

Now, if your income isn’t sufficient to budget for the occsional dinner out, that’s a different problem – you need more income.

If you need help in making a budget, please say so – I think this group will be able to help with that!

[Cari]

Different therapist. Stat.
I like that you’re seeing that your behavior was awful on your husband’s birthday.

But it was nearly (or was) abusive. To see what I mean, flip the script: a financially controlling husband is going to “treat” his wife on her birthday. She’s excited.

Then the bill arrives. And he flips out. He set her up.

If the genders were flipped, we would tell her to make a run for it.
So. Your behavior is a choice.

You chose the restaurant. You chose to freak out when the bill arrived.

Even if you were freaking out on the inside, you don’t get to externalize that and ruin his or any one else’s night (that you invited him on).

That’s primary if you want to save your marriage. And divorce is way more expensive than a $200 steak dinner.

So, 100% stop that. Whatever crazy is going on in your own head: that’s where it stays until you get a better grip. Don’t blame your discomfort for your bad behavior. That’s the FIRST step.

But LOTS of praise even recognizing you don’t want to be THAT person. That is a brave and an amazing thing. Seriously.

The NEXT question is how to become more comfortable spending. People have lots of good suggestions: budget in the mad money, pay yourself first.

Maybe whatever extra money is spilt 80% savings 20% fun. A pretty strict budget can be freeing. When we were first married – our entertainment for a month was: 1 matinee, and 2 pizzas OR one restaurant meal at the Greek or Chinese place.

We really looked forward to our “fun” things. If spouse got a bonus – maybe 2 movies, 1 pizza and 1 restaurant meal.

But try and set aside those funds. Try and enjoy some simple things. Maybe give your husband the fun money and you don’t even look at that check!

And just like with dieting…look at the menu BEFORE you go. Decide if that place really is within budget BEFORE you go!

But don’t get these steps backwards. Your behavior is separate from the triggers when it involves other people.

[Stacey]

I’m not sure there’s a simple solution for this. If I may suggest the book Abundance Loop by Juliana Park.

This and several other books have been helpful with similar issues I’ve experienced.

[Melissa]

If you are miserable like this about spending money now, then you will continue to be miserable some day when you are FI no matter how much you have.

You are right to think about it and want to change. Since it affects you so much emotional and mentally I would suggest maybe finding another therapist?

This is affecting you and your marriage. It’ll affect your kids mentality too. It’s worth getting help.

At the very least, I would budget in “fun” money, with the rule that you have to spend it, no excuses.

You have to plan within your budgeted amount but you have to spend it.

Maybe if that becomes a habit and you still see your savings accounts rising it will help with your peace of mind.

[Kristen]

Highly recommend Ramit Sethi’s conscious spending plan “budget”. He also has a podcast, Netflix show and book – I will teach you to be rich.

He talks about spending on things you love and cutting things that aren’t important to you.

Once I starting using his spending plan and allocating a specific dollar amount to eating out, it has really helped me with a problem similar to you.

Yes, I still have issues, but I’ve come a long way.

[Priscilla]

Read “Die With Zero” and push through the initial info in the book that is against the grain of what you think right now.

Even if you don’t follow the guidelines of the book exactly, reviewing the approach outlined through the book will help you take a more balanced approach to enjoy life and still be prepared for the future.

You have to enjoy your life too. Tomorrow is never promised.

I genuinely hope you’ll read it. It’s so good.

[Damaso]

You are just like my wife. So, what she does is play mind tricks with money. She makes me pay for everything and then yells at me at the end of the month because I spend too much money.

We have one account and she takes care of the finances.

It’s not my fault if she sends me to Costco and I spend $500 instead of $200!! The golf balls were on sale.

My wife’s issues with money come from her upbringing and this is something that is not easy to change.

Luckily we are able to balance each other out in our view of money because I could be happy if my wife took out the red pen every time a big purchase came about.

Good luck and just know that you are not the only one that has these feelings.

[Ann]

Set a budget for your ‘fun’ spending and then try and enjoy it. You don’t have to say yes to everything, only what fits in your budget.

[Sarah]

Can u set a budget for “fun” each month and choose how to spend it? Ie dinner, movies, experience, etc.

Might make u feel better.

[Alan]

Short term: Take a percentage of money for fun. Take it out in cash. You have to spend it and only on fun stuff – if you don’t you have to donate it at the end of the month.

Also see a therapist – it sounds you are using money to exert control over anxiety.

Live your life in % not $ figures.

[Lourdes]

I can relate to you. What has been helpful to me is to budget. I have a weekly budget for “restaurants/outings”. We don’t go out to eat every week. We go out 1x or 2x month.

When we go out, I give myself permission to enjoy the moment without worrying about spending Money on unnecessary things.

This Money has been allocated for this purpose. I feel free. I do stick to the budget.

I do enjoy the freedom that comes with budgeting.

[Amanda]

I can relate to this. Do you follow a spending plan? For me, YNAB is integral to showing me that I have already set aside for future me, and that this spending was already planned for while not sacrificing my investing.

[Roe]

Totally have to shift your mindset. Remember at the end of the day it’s just money. You can’t take it with you.

It’s such a cliche saying but so true.

You have to actively work on how you are viewing money. It’s a means to an end and not the end

[Sofia]

Oof I don’t know that I have a straight answer for you but it’s great that you are aware of your behavior and emotions and their impact on your family.

Maybe thing about what money means to you (other than financial independence down the road). What does it mean to you NOW?

Also, god forbid, if you woke up and didn’t have your family anymore, and just the money, would you maybe have regret that you didn’t get to enjoy some of the money you have to make memories and enjoy life a little with them?

I hope this last question doesn’t come off as me judging – I swear I’m not.

It’s merely a scenario to maybe trick your brain into thinking worse case scenario and how money isn’t always the most important thing. It’s simply a tool to allow you to build the life you want.

So, start by thinking about the life you want today (not just down the road when you’re financially independent/retired), right now.

Because while the future is important to plan for, the only thing guarantee is today.

And it’s really hard when you’re the one dealing with the feelings, but you sound like someone who’s willing to make changes to improve the current situation.

Also, if you haven’t already I would tell your husband how you feel and admit to it all, from an open and vulnerable place.

He will see just how much you care and appreciate the honesty.

You got this

[Endri]

We all have a little guilt, honestly it will get better once you start getting safety nets. That means you see your retirement accounts get to a certain level, that will give you some peace.

But also, budget for everything, even for fun (I don’t budget at all but I see this being the solution on here a lot)

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