[USER]

Looking for advice. It’s actually easier to ask a group of people I don’t know this, than people I know. I’m sure others have had a similar issue.

Background info:
I’m mid40s male, and am sort of FIRE’d, worked very minimally for the last 3+ years.

Net worth and assets currently accumulated could likely sustain ME by myself, for a very long time, possibly forever.

I heard FIRE recoined lately by someone as “Financial Indpendence, Recreationally Employed” Thats me.

I like to make money and still make say 20-30k a year in labor/freelance/other task type stuff.

I have no kids and have not been in a realtionship for a very long time.

Problem:
I met and began dating someone. She is about my age, has 2 young children, and is super busy with work and the kids.

She makes above average money, but has what seems to be no sense of financial management skills.

She spends as much as she makes or likely more.

I think her ex-husband likely managed the money before she was recently divorced. It doesn’t seem that she understands the principles of wealth building, nor seems to anxious to learn.

The fact that I don’t work, and she has to, with no retirement date even in the forecast has created some tensions…..maybe a bit of jealousy of my life of leisure.
My frugality often conflicts with her nature to spend.

We do whatever she wants to, but she definitely knows I’m naturally frugal, although I do pay for anything we do together.

Has anyone else run into this issue?
Should I re-enter the workforce and have less free time, but more money to spend on doing things with her and her children when she has them?

I’m not opposed to this as she’s great. and they are as well.

Should I run away from this situation as soon as possible? lol

are there any female voices in the FIRE movement with podcasts or books that really spoke to you? Podcasts? Books? IGs, Facebooks?

Anything that may help bridge that gap in our mindsets and change her strategy on saving and investing?

[Christine]

Financial incompatibility is one of the top reasons for divorce. If you have discussions with her about it and she’s not receptive, you’ll have to decide if you’ll be able to live with those habits or not.

[Christina]

I wouldn’t go back to work because you are seeing someone who has to work. That is not your problem. I’d try to open her eyes to financial independence and if she is not interested, I’d move on.

Just because you can afford to pay for her and her kids doesn’t mean you should. Unless you are willing to support her and her family but why would you?

Edit to add: Since your girlfriend has already implied that she expects to be taken care of, how do you feel about doing so without resentment?

It takes time to try to change a habit, are you ok with waiting for that to happen while investing in the relationship? If she doesn’t change, then what?

Like your girlfriend, I like to spend money on self care that my husband saw no value in for himself. As I got older, I found more things that I wanted to do/spend money on and this habit has gotten more expensive.

It is only not a problem in my marriage because my husband knew I was a spender and was willing to take care of me without expecting me to change my spending habits. Are you ready for that?

[Ruthy]

I normally don’t respond to these, but feel compelled to. If you were my son, I’d be worried for you.

1. Seeing your responses, you really like her and want to find a way to stay in the relationship, even if it means ignoring the many red flags.

2. You said you are naturally a giver and don’t mind being generous. That is easy to take advantage of and you can put your money at risk under the moral guise of generosity.

Giving is admirable, if it is reasonable (in my opinion). Is your level of generosity sustainable?

3. You mentioned she expects to be financially dependent at some point. Are you fully prepared to support her and her children in the future?

What would her spending be if she were not occupied being employed? Is that even a life you want?

4. Lets assume that she does spend $500-$1000 a month in self care. Based on her income, that still should allow for saving, investing, 529s, debt pay off etc.

It is a red flag that she puts her beauty above basic financial survival for her AND her children(forget FIRE).

5. You said she gets defensive when talking about money.

That could be shame. But that could also be hiding something deeper. I worked in financial counseling, and most people that don’t want to even talk about it had something going on.

Maybe way more debt than you think, or other extreme spending habits.

6. You seem to be rationalizing or convince yourself that you want to work but just haven’t found the right opportunity.

If you wanted to work more, you probably could have by now. You make $30K per year. You could have turned that into a full time business.

You don’t because you probably really enjoy not working and that’s a good thing. It’s what you worked for.

I think you need to be brutally honest with yourself about this situation. Rationalizing your decision isn’t healthy. Romanticizing her and the life you “could have” isn’t helpful and will blind you to an informed decision.

You can’t be with someone and already be hoping they’ll change.

If you stay in the relationship, you also need to be fair to her and give her your best expectations of your financial life together. Meaning, are you ok with her not working in the future?

If no, tell her. Are you ok paying off her debt if needed? Are you ok helping to pay for college? Any expectations she has that you can’t meet, have that conversation and let her do the same.

I think it’s time for a fully transparent conversation. Don’t date people based on potential.

Decide based on who they are because you can’t change her. If she hasn’t become financially savvy for herself and the kids, why would she do it for you?

I wish you the best outcome possible.

[Andrea]

She is more in the norm than you are. Finding someone you really love is not that easy, and if you can accept the differences and love her, why end it?

You haven’t been in a relationship for a long time. If the reason is that it’s hard to find people you like, I’d take that into consideration.

I’m surprised how fast people are to tell you to stop seeing her over this.

[Sage]

I would run, these problems are only going to snowball into bigger issues until she becomes a drain on your finances.

Why would you consider reentering the work force over this at all?

You worked hard to earn your lifestyle and you deserve to find someone who shares your beliefs.

[Donna]

Bring her to watch Suze Orman or maybe tune to her while you are in a car or something. Ask her if she wants to retire early and not having to work anymore after a few years.

This is usually lack of education in finances or feeling like they have no way out of their situation and feeling like they are never going to win. Have a talk with her but not in a pushy way.

Show her how you invest and how it has grown. Maybe for her bday offer to buy her a stock for her to watch it grow.

Every woman would love to have less stress and more fun unless she is shopaholic or have spending problem I’m sure something will motivate her.

Take her to a cruise and tell her that if she saves more she can go on them more.

If she is just a financially irresponsible one who has no interest in preparing for retirement, find someone else.

[Spenceree]

I want to share from three distinct perspectives (1) as a woman in her late 30s on the FIRE path, (2) who’s also a single mom with two young kids, and a (3) stepdaughter.

As someone who started investing young, and loves the game of building wealth; the whole point is living while you’re living.

I know some people on here penny-pinch their whole lives and retire with tens of millions, but that isn’t the only way.

There is a middle ground. You can play the game and adjust the numbers to live the best life you could while you have your health, your able body, and the ability to build a life (not just grow a bank account).

I just don’t think the millions can do as much for you in your 60s and they can in your 40s.

As a mom, there’s no price on family. Having kids in your life, whether biologically yours or not, and having a partner who cherishes you and vice versa, is sweeter than the highest return rate. In fact, kids are the best ROI you’ll ever see.

My stepdad is the grandpa to my kids—even though my dad is still around, stepdad is just much more involved and made for this. He’s the person who hangs the TVs and is the emergency contact for daycare.

They married when I was 15, but the impact he has on my life is no less than a bio dad and I know he feels the same way.

Lastly, and this is just based on my own anecdotal experience: Women spend more. We care more about what the house looks like, the quality of the furniture, the clothes for the kids. We like nice things that men can do without.

It doesn’t sound like she’s expecting you to provide for her, but if you love her and see a future, I think this is a wonderful opportunity to have a family.

[Annie]

I’m new to FIRE. My partner had/ has a stricter financial mindset especially when we met. Once romance goggles came off and we were ready to make life commitments he really had a hard time – fear set in – and he began to question things – will this relationship deplete all of my hard work.

Will it deplete all of my financial efforts for the future.

A bit extreme if you ask me but totally valid as his mindset was frugal for 20 plus years and he sacrificed since age of 19 in being frugal.

And he learned and saw how I was ‘free’ with money… and eventually he linked that this is a a cost… a cost that I dont have funds … and eventually he won’t either.

I don’t think it would work if we did not get on thr dame page – closer to the same page.

Eventually when u share a life u share finances so all of her choices … impact u … its from your pocket. All of your choices impact her… so ur good savings … means more funds for her right? Or no?

They do if you get married. I think you have to ask some hard questions…and imagine a life 10 20 30 years down the line.

One of the differences in my relationship is that I knew my habits were bad and one of the things I needed to improve. It was harder to get a hold of things when I earned less.

It’s been a painful and hard process to try to adjust habits. A lot of financial back stepping. Once we got more serious we would have more fights about money. I became super strict with my finances once I had a child.

So… does she want to become more financially savvy?
Does she want to live a frugal life?

Or does she like living a life where she spends?
I think both of you working would probably help be similar but she will also know u can support her. And so what are the expectations/ dynamics like.

Some couples are good with that and some are not.

I think being on the same page is important if you are considering sharing a life. (at its most extreme are you wanting to contribute your hard earned money to your new love once you become a family – is that how u envision life being the financial provider?

Does that mean u get a say in how it’s spend or does it mean u say yes dear just tell me how much)

[Russell]

The number one issue is common goals. If you’re having fun and considering getting serious, have a clear conversation on long term goals.

If she’s bad at managing money, perhaps you’ll end up in charge of finances in the long term.

If you have a common goal and that goal needs you to return to working more to get there, then do so.

If you simply return to cover her financial mismanagement, it will lead to resentment and the relationship will collapse.

[Valerie]

Unless you are willing to support her and her kids, and take on a lifetime of financial education and obligations, I would advise against getting into something serious with her.

Kids are really expensive. She kind of sounds expensive.

Dating and living separately for years might be a good way to approach this.

[Dawn]

Congrats on finding someone you are attracted to who’s companionship you enjoy. Bonus that you like being around her kids too.

Date her and teach her, see how/if she changes any behaviors.

Since she makes average money and has an ex, the kids Dad can worry their costs.

Sounds like she is used to a lifestyle and needs to modify her budget, if she has one.

Don’t bail on a good thing too soon. To quote an old movie, “success is nothing if you don’t have someone to share it with.”

You also say you like to work, so try and see where it’s going before you revert to your single life.

[Joe]

You definitely should NOT enter the workforce to pay for her and her children.

Why would even consider this???

[Emily]

Me: frugal, vegan, ‘06 PT Cruiser when MIL stopped driving, lean pretty left

Him: orders from Amazon daily, meat and cheese only, muscle carS new and old, leans pretty right

We keep all finances separate, I pay half of what is fair for a standard 2 bedroom ranch in our area that I’d prefer to live in.

He wants a status house with land so he can pay the rest. We’re very happy together.

Odds are you are not going to find someone that thinks just like you. Figure out what your boundaries are, learn what hers are, and with that decide together if you want to make it work.

And to answer your question, Extreme Early Retirement from JLF

[Tapp]

I am fairly close to FIRE and will NEVER get into a relationship with someone not aligned with my financial values.

I am frugal to an extent, which has allowed me to save quickly and be at a place where early retirement is within sight.

I don’t have the patience to teach a grown person how to manage their finances. Furthermore, I refuse to date people with young kids because I have no desire to take part in raising other’s kids.

Take this with a pinch of salt given that I am a 51yo female with two grown kids whom I raised all by myself.

So, there it is.

[Mindi]

She’s not going to change unless she wants to change and sounds like she doesn’t want to change.

This situation sounds like a hot mess. Proceed with caution and whatever you do, do not marry her.

[Bear]

My wife and I were very different on finances when we met. She had a lot of debt and I never had any. Got her out of debt and married.

Made sure she understood where I stood on finances, but it still causes tensions between us.

I’ve loosened up how much I try to pay attention to her spending, but as long as we are still meeting goals, I try to just let things go.

You need to see how much your differences in managing money actually matter to you and what you’re willing to live with.

[Christine]

Sadly I was this woman, until I woke up in my late 30’s. She will have to “want” to on her own.

My question is this: are you content to return to work? Or will there be a resentment on having to not pursue the things you love?

I ask as I’m 44, and while def not FI I’m running my own business and it allows me a lot of freedom and flexibility.

I love being able to work remote and golf when I want to… of if I had to give that up to accommodate another person I would be PISSED.

The biggest hook is Freedom, are you willing to give it up?
I’m personally not, I’ve worked too hard for too long..

I’d rather be single

[Alanna]

If you think her and her children bring value to your life, you should think about more than the financial aspects of the relationship.

You cant put a price on happiness.

[Hollie]

Have you even talked to her about these things and making plans moving forward, or have you come to these conclusions yourself?

[Tanya]

Kids are expensive, supporting herself plus two more people is hard as a woman because of gender pay gap, raising two children alone is hard, doing all work for the family outside and inside of the house is hard.

She is likely spending everything she earns because of the reasons above, everything is very expensive.

Maybe help her budget better instead of judging.

[Author]

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